hey guys, I've been reading along here and I can't find some decent thread/info on what cams are decent/good/best to use on what b-series setup.

Example. I'll be putting in pr3 pistons into my b18b, so the CR will be 11.3:1 or around there.

What would the main difference be between the Crower 403 and 404 cams? I heard that the 404's have a rough idle, but performance wise...how are they rated? I don't have a problem with my idle being rough..I will drive it on the street with 404's if it yields me the best power.

What about Brian Crower cams...are there any better in general that he made compared to the 403/404 series from crower itself?

Also, what cams work with what valvespring and retainers?

I've been hearing that titanium retainers start failing after a few thousand miles and can cause you to drop a valve.


Lets keep this thread orientated on valvetrain to help others like me

unless there is one thread that covers this, please point me in the right direction so I can not be confused!

thanks
bart

again its really unfortunate that the old site went down as a-lot of people contributed good info on the stock cams and most/all the after market valvetrains. Does anyone happen to have made a copy of that info so it could be put down at one time? I'm not gonna be much help on this one past the actual grind spec's. I used customs. But if I get the chance sometime this week Ill sit down and try and type some stuff out if no-ones added it allready by then.

Cam [b]Intake Duration [b]Exhaust Duration Gross Lift (1.75)
Advertised / @ .050" Advertised / @ .050" Intake Exhaust
Stock B18B1 cam 220 / 185 222 / 187 .395 .380
Crower 62401 224 / 188 226 / 190 .395 .380
Crower 62402 233 / 194 245 / 197 .414 .399
Crower 62402T 235 / 190 235 / 190 .469 .469
Crower 62403 243 / 211 246 / 210 .423 .409
Crower 62404 249 / 216 251 / 218 .446 .432
Crower 62405A 280 / 230 274 / 222 .476 .467
Crower 62405 287 / 252 287 / 252 .502 .502
Crane Cams 101-0010 228 / 202 246 / 208 .400 .388
Crane Cams 101-0012 232 / 206 250 / 212 .400 .388
Crane Cams 101-0014 232 / 206 242 / 204 .400 .388
Crane Cams 101-0016 246 / 218 246 / 218 .433 .433
Crane Cams 101-0018 254 / 226 254 / 226 .453 .453
Crane Cams 101-0020 262 / 234 262 / 234 .472 .472


http://www.briancrower.com/makes/honda/b18ab18b.shtml
http://www.crower.com/cat/import/honda/cams/b18ab.shtml

If you want to go over stock redline safely, upgraded springs/retainers are needed. Check manufacturer pages for more info..Never heard that Ti retainers are a problem...

ON the old site there was a guy running webcam 452s with pretty damn good success, I think he had 403's before then? He really liked them...

Check this link out
http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1733514

I do plan on doing valve springs + retainers, but looking for a good pair of camshafts that will give me great power at 11.3:1 CR

bc are good I have a set og jg that I am about to use in about a month or so I just hope they are better...

from what we have seen building motors here at our shop is that the first 2 stages of crower take stock valve train, but teh 3s and higher require more revving to make more power and that means aftermarket like crower or JG engine dynamics, their the best ive seen on the market for non vtec engines.

T.I. retainers are not that big of a problem. I ran them in my old car without a problem and the kid who bought the car is still running them with no problem. I have heard many people complain that 404's have a very rough idle. But I have heard it in person and they are not that bad. It is all about tuning, if you have a good tuner he can even it out pretty good. There will still be looping there but it won't sound like its drowning. If you up your compression then go with 404's. the 403's are mainly meant for stock block and a lot more streetablility because your compression is the same. In the end, just make sure you get it tuned properly and you will be happy.

well i'm on the fence now with the build...but I've thought about it and if I do pickup the crower 404's I'm going to do the following:

-JG engine dynamics valvetrain
-Skunk2 pro IM
-65mm TB
-good exhaust manifold(rage/hytech...)
-mill head few thou to raise the CR even more while running the PR3's

-I'd like to aim at 11.8:1 or 12:1 CR while running the 404's.

The thing thats stoping me will be the head. I'd like to get it p'n'p and valve job for it to flow a bit better.

I've watched a video of the 404's and they sound lumpy and almost like a v8 :O

Everyone's setup is different and you may have better luck with the looping. It would be nice to have a p&p along with a valve job but thats running into some cost. Make sure you have enough saved up for misc. things such as gaskets and all that jazz. I don't know what your plans are with tuning but i've only had experience with the hondata systems. They are a bit pricey and require a liscensed dealer to tune it. but they usually know their stuff and do a great job tuning your setup.

the stock head will start to be a "bottlneck" around 6k+ so its worthwhile in just about every crower cam from the 403's up to work the head over....

the amount you gain from headwork will depend on how much time you spend over 6k (in other words the larger the cam profile, the more youll gain).

dont be afraid of the 404's, despite the perception they are actually a midrange/high rpm cam. they still make tons of power at usable rpms like 3-5k. the title of "race" cam is a bit much in my opinion for them. ive been daily driven em for years now.

How does this valve train compare to crower

not sure but I've looked into JG as a company and they have been around for a bunch of years, built a a boat load of amazing engines and do great testing for their parts.

I've spoken with them and they said their titanium retainers won't wear down and it's not the same metal from 'china'. I trust them as they have a fairly good reputation and seem to know what they are talking about.

I'm sure crower is good aswell tho with their Ti retainers

JG springs / retainers

i have a b18b and some b20 cams i want to put in.can anyone give me some help on how to put them in.

The stock cams are the same, why bother? Get something else....

b20b cams are actually smaller than b18b cams, b20z cams are supposed to have slightly more duration than b18b cams.

bottom line though, dont bother