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 Post subject: Cass from Las Vegas Nonvtec B20b
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:41 pm 
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Probably, if you saw my intro thread it states I went through two JDM B20B which I bought from a reputable guy in Nevada. These two engines were used going to and from work a few times and both blew going home on the highway going at 70mph. Each time I paid for the fluids, the installation fee and the pulling the motors out and put another one in. It has been a year and now the 2nd B20b is pulled one last time.

Daily driven, great gas mileage, around 22mpg is acceptable. Low to midrange torque, balance of power, naturally aspirated, OEM Honda quality and must be able to be used in the highway.

My brother and I teemed up one final time.
1998 cast cylinder head and B20b block
Crankshaft is shot on the 4th connecting rod.
cylinder head has a massive leak with oil and coolant
1st B20b the oil pump froze and the motor froze in the highway. Perhaps the oil pump gear shattered.


We have:
Skunk2 Alpha rods, Wiseco high compression pistons, AEM ecu, Skunk2 Alpha fuel rail, Stock cam gears, Fluidampr, russell fuel line kit, ACL race bearings, ARP main studs, ARP cylinder head studs, Blox intake manifold, Blox throttle body, phenolic throttle body and intake manifold gasket.

the block is getting sent out to Benson, we are going with the Benson naturally aspirated sleeves. I just have to pack and ship it.

I am thinking if I need to re-deck the cylinder head. Or should I get the Cylinder head ported and place Crower 62403 with springs in it?

the crankshaft, an LS crank will do, go through the trouble and get it balanced or just micropolish it and call it done?

Transmission will need a rebuild. Normal LS hydro trans for this build with WaveTrac LSD.

suspension is based around daily driven purposes for a 1998 Honda Civic LX. Other factors is the weight of the engine, my brother and my fat ass there is like almost 500lbs. Three rescued German Shepherds about 400lbs in the back. Height is still needed. so far, I have the Tokico Str-t struts, H&R OE sports, standard oem fr. sway bar. Rear is disc brakes from some Honda Civic Si-R but no sway bar.

I am thinking of purchasing the ASR rear sway bar should i get the standard size one or the bigger and hollow one?

Everything sounds good so far?


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 Post subject: Re: Cass from Las Vegas Nonvtec B20b
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:32 pm 
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Or should I get the Cylinder head ported and place Crower 62403 with springs in it?


If your gonna make power NA, cams are absolutely necessary.

for the transmission, I would try to find a b16, gsr, or type R tranny. They have way better gearing for NA applications.

If you plan on upgrading the rear sway bar size, definitely think of getting a rear subframe brace to prevent it from tearing out during heavy cornering :super

what compression ratio are the pistons youre throwing in?

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 Post subject: Re: Cass from Las Vegas Nonvtec B20b
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:25 pm 
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Compression
Cams
Exhaust(header is in this list as well)
CAI(2.5" to 3") This is actually the one item you can go cheap on cause no matter who makes it its just a tube with a filter on it.

Port the exhaust side of the head, smooth the intake side.

Do not gasket match the intake ports, just clean them up and the oe TB should be sufficient, Just may need to open up the TB opening a bit.

I am not upto date on B series flywheel weights but I know on a D anything less than 10-12 lbs and your streetablility really sucks.

The trans should be just fine, I actually like the gearing on the ls trans.

A good clutch and have some fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Cass from Las Vegas Nonvtec B20b
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:28 pm 
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I like the LS trans also, but unless u can find an LSD for cheap, you can almost buy a C5 tranny for the same price..to each their own though :super

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 Post subject: Re: Cass from Las Vegas Nonvtec B20b
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:34 pm 
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Go with the standard size swaybar. I had the hollow one that I bought on craigslist and it kept hitting the exhaust, sold it in a week.

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 Post subject: Re: Cass from Las Vegas Nonvtec B20b
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:21 pm 
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I have used my B16 hydro transmission with Kaaz limited slip differential on this b20b. It feels way too short and honestly, I hate it for this engine so I gave my transmission, along with my tired but running jdm obd1 b16a with Integra Type R cams, type r intake manifold, RPM service cnc throttle body DC sports (old school) 4-2-1 header to my little brother. He is 25 now and never owned his own Honda before.

I am trying to match the engine to the transmission and my older yet new lifestyle. I want it to go on highway if possible at 70mph at 3000rpm at most. Figured the LS transmission and try a gear type limited slip differential is worth a shot. Yah sounds good, I will give the oem Type R sized sway bar a shot.

I think the compression supposed to be 13 to 1 but, with standard B20b head it is 10.8:1.

Cylinder head I probably get it worked on since I have to deck it anyways. Throw those Crower 62403 plus valve springs. I made like 139hp on stock motor. Maybe I will shoot for 141hp on the dyno. I will be happy with that.


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 Post subject: Re: Cass from Las Vegas Nonvtec B20b
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:22 am 
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with the parts list you've included and with a proper tune, you shouldnt have a problem hitting 160+whp

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 Post subject: Re: Cass from Las Vegas Nonvtec B20b
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:24 am 
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just saw you listed stock cam gears.. You'll want adjustable gears in order to degree the cams for extra powa!

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 Post subject: Re: Cass from Las Vegas Nonvtec B20b
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:49 am 
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mr spooner wrote:
just saw you listed stock cam gears.. You'll want adjustable gears in order to degree the cams for extra powa!


Right totally forgot about those. I figure one less thing to worry about with stock cam gears as no slippage but, it do make sense if I were to change the cams out for bigger ones.

I wonder if the type r style nonvtec intake manifold is useless for a lower rpm engine like this B20b or go with a longer runner LS intake manifold for daily commute.


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 Post subject: Re: Cass from Las Vegas Nonvtec B20b
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:56 pm 
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I have no experience with the type-r style mani, but I have the the skunk2 pro-series mani for my LS and love it! Id personally go with the new Ultra series, hell of a design but spendy though!

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 Post subject: Re: Cass from Las Vegas Nonvtec B20b
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:37 pm 
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do like i did and hack a b16 im into a nonvtec head... looks like a lot to be don but honestly isn't... also a comparo thread on ht puts the b16 (2nd gen) im on top of the type-r unit. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Cass from Las Vegas Nonvtec B20b
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 2:26 am 
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deddth wrote:
do like i did and hack a b16 im into a nonvtec head... looks like a lot to be don but honestly isn't... also a comparo thread on ht puts the b16 (2nd gen) im on top of the type-r unit. ;)


haha it's allright. I have that blox intake manifold still. The two holes on the far left and right does not sit flush I may have to modify because of the subpar casting from blox.

I do have an LS intake manifold should that be better for everyday driving over the Blox intake manifold?


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 Post subject: Re: Cass from Las Vegas Nonvtec B20b
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 5:32 am 
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i'd use the blox unit.

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 Post subject: Re: Cass from Las Vegas Nonvtec B20b
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 3:26 am 
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deddth wrote:
i'd use the blox unit.



As would I
Much more air flow over the stock unit

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 Post subject: Re: Cass from Las Vegas Nonvtec B20b
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:51 pm 
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yeah might as well use the Blox if ya got it!

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 Post subject: Re: Cass from Las Vegas Nonvtec B20b
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:38 pm 
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Got the short block back from Benson. It is in the box and probably there for a while. Should I look into saving for the Crower nonvtec cams and a high volume oil pump?


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 Post subject: Re: Cass from Las Vegas Nonvtec B20b
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:11 am 
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definitely snag some aggressive cams to make use of that Benson block :super

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 Post subject: Re: Cass from Las Vegas Nonvtec B20b
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:34 pm 
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I know it has been so long. About 4 years. I feel I have to give you all the update to "Cass from Las Vegas Nonvtec B20b." :modo I can't believe that my little brother with a 9.00 an hour job saved for most of these parts on his own. I will admit I placed this project on the back burner while he was at it getting the parts he dreamed of.

Lots of it was waiting to save for the parts, wait for the shop to get to it, life, new job, getting a girlfriend, more life. But hey it is done.

We took the Skunk 2 Alpha connecting rods, WiseCo high compression pistons, some random flywheel, a SCAT lightweight crankshaft to get balanced by Accurate Machine just in case. The machinist and owner or Accurate stated "Whoa these parts, all of them are so perfect, I checked them three times and re checked my machines three times and they were perfect. I had to give you guys a 40.00 discount because I can't do anything to them!"

I was dissatisfied with the Innovative gray mounts that probably had 40 miles on them tops and had them sent back to Innovative to change the gray mounts to the softer black mounts. Much better than before.

Oil pump was next. No way I will put just the stock one back on and my Uncle Johnny and his wife paid for it because he believed we will succeed. It was already reading low on both blown engines when they were running. I purchased the Apocalypse Racing oil pump. I can't say that it helped a ton but I am sure the lighter weight and balanced rotating assembly did contribute a large factor for much less frequent low oil pressure light coming on when tune with Crome Pro. Hondata was much more streetable and smoother for this build so the oil pressure light never went off with the borrowed Hondata. A Password JDM oilpump baffle was also installed on the oem oil pan.

I had the cylinder head worked at Accurate Machine and sure fixed it but I was dissatisfied and I wanted more so I sent it to Rocket Motorsports for some treatment. Bowls blended Intake side was opened up, exhaust side too and 5 angle valve job and assembled. New Rocket motorsports valve springs and Rocket Motorsports M22xxx regrind camshafts. According to Rocket we have the newest grind recipe and it has a smooth idle and Force Fed did not have any complications in tuning these cams as it took matter of 6 minutes on the dyno to get the engine set with these cams. I wanted a bigger cams for the more flow rate of this E85 only High compression build with near stock characteristics. Okay I forgot I am using old Skunk2 Alpha cam gears too. Rocket Motorsports nailed it.

I wanted FID injectors but my brother stammered "NO, I am going to save for Injector Dynamics 725 Denso style injectors!" He did get them, these too helped with the smooth operation.

Walbro 255lph fuel pump installed, Russell Braided fuel lines from fuel filter to skunk2 fuel rail installed, NRG fuel filter pressure gauge. All for E85 only.

Dissatisfied with the Blox as the casting was not even straight and the vacuum passages were sub par, this manifold bent my extended intake manifold studs because the flanges are not straight. I bought myself a Skunk2 intake manifold. Perfect piece of perfection.

Th Blox throttlebody was sticking as the butterfly was not cut right and was not seated good on the mounting holes to the throttlebody shaft. This was junk. I was thinking of buying the Skunk2 Alpha throttle body but heard they too, stick closed while driving. I can be stuck with two bad throttle body. F-That! Setting TPS is even more difficult on this too v. stock. So I sent the Blox throttle body to Maxbore.com and he worked it the best on this. It does not stick nearly as bad anymore but driving it no sticking at all so I am happy.

My brother had some old stock tires in pepboys so he bought them for an old set of used 16 inch rota slipstreams. All I need are good wheel lugs to install them.

The trans that I hated and was on my b16 was a GSR transmission. Whoops. I was right this transmission is good with the nature of the B20b. We had it rebuilt with many oem honda parts, Synchrotech synchros and master rebuild kit and an Mfactory gear type limited slip differential. The fluid was a cocktail, i think 1 qt Quaker state regular oil, penzoil synchromax and Steel Shield Technologies Trans Shield owned by a friend of mine, George Fennell. It is now meshing well.

It is running and it has the most unique sound ever. It even started at first crank and a base tune from some random b20b. It literally sounds like huge plungers sucking and gaping for air and fuel, it does sound that it is choking because of the catalytic converter from an old Integra installed on it.

The break in process was use 5 gallons of e85 fuel and let it idle on its own out in front of ForceFed Racing Las Vegas. drive it slowly to at 2000 rpm and move it through the gears to seat the transmission. Oil used for break in was Driven BR30 10w30. It came home a month or so ago and my brother drove it for the first time probably three weeks ago and he was sure happy. Highest break in rpm was 3000 no less and drove all around Summerlin, I did it probably twice some nights prior. The fuel gauge was still sitting at about 3/4 tank after about 3 hours of driving it was amazing on the efficiency my brother and I have engineered. We did see some brisk dips on the oil pressure warning light and I blame that on the Crome Pro. It does not react the same algorithms as the Hondata I borrowed for a brief moment. Rocket wants to document this engine and hang out with us in Vegas but we told him after Jonas and I go through it one more time and after its most perfect break in we can.

Dissatisfied my little brother hated the quick dips of oil pressure on idle so he wants to get the s300 like I said but he wants to add an 2qt. Accusump to make sure this will never happen again. I am thinking of purchasing a 2 gauge cluster with the Autolite electronic oil pressure gauge and a sandwich plate to install it.

quick fix of the exhaust back pressure on this E85 14.5:1 compression engine will be to rid the Integra catalytic converter and install the Invidia adjustable Test pipe my brother just bought.

This engine does seemingly feels hotter than my b16 after popping the hood. I was thinking of the Mishimoto X Line three row radiator but nah. I am thinking of running Justice Bros. radiator cooler and distilled water. The Mishimoto 2 row must be doing its job though. Perhaps get the headers not wrapped but ceramic coated.

We talked about oil we are going to stay with Driven oils 10w30 this time perhaps even that will help build oil pressure with thicker viscosity.

Perhaps to get even more exhaust out I think that I want to go with the 1320 RMFv2 megaphone header, Toda style header or the SMSP style header or the old DC 4-1 ceramic coated header. My little brother wants Skunk2 Alpha header. That is the last on the list.

If have extra money an Autometer coolant temperature guage, some mids, highs, one sub and whatever. I don't know stereo.

Buy the s300 and my brother said that there is some module for e85 from hondata that can be added for the storage of a summer and winter e85 tunes.


Whew. That was long. How does it sound so far? What Header do you all think we should get? We need the low and mid range only.


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