Hey guys,
I've been working on this build for about a year and a half now. Just about done but I can't get it started. here's the inevitable list of goodies:
bottom:
B20 block bored to accept 84.5 wiseco 11.5-1 pistons
Cylinder brace
eagle h-beam's
acl bearings
polished crank
type-r oil pump

top:
DH Racing P&P head
T-rets & Dual valve springs
Crower 403's

everything else:
Koyo big-a full aluminum radiator
Ported stock intake manifold
Generic ram intake
arospeed wires
NGK iridium plugs
AEM pulleys (not HarmB)
DC 4-2-1 headers
Magnaflow catback
ARP bolts everywhere
New water pump, distributer, head gasket, All belts

OK, I thought that I had done this build about as tediously as possible. I drained all the old gas, put in fresh 91 octane. All new fluids. I can't get this thing started to save my life. My brother in law (who is a much better mechanic than I am) came over and we tried to eliminate all possible problems. We checked everything. Spark's there, timing seems right (we tried advancing/retarding by rotating the distributer), fuel's flowing fine. The only thing I can think of is the compression issue. Do you think I need a high compression starter? Maybe use racing fuel?

What have you guys done with simalar builds? Help!!

-does the motor seem like it turns over like stock or slower?

-what engine management are you using?

-do you know if you are getting too much or too little fuel (spark plugs look wet after trying to start)?

-have you checked to make sure the cylinders are not flooded with fuel?

-are the cams installed correctly (it can happen)?

i know some of these questions may seem odd or offensive but i don't mean for them to be, these are just some of the problems i can think of. good luck!

thanks for the quick reply - no worries the q's are all very valid.

So far no engine management. I've hooked up with Cortney Green here in Utah to do that as soon as we get this thing running. He uses Neptune.

We checked a lot of things again last night. The plugs were wet even without trying starter fluid. We did flood it once to make sure the fuel pump was working. But then took out all four plugs, let it dissapate and tried it dry.

We double-checked the cams. Intake and exhaust sides were correct.

We were using a remote starter and very gently, with the valve cover off watched the succesion of each valve. Everything seemed to be in order.

The starter seemed to be turning it over just fine. We did start to run out of juice after a while from the battery.

what ecu are you using to get it started?

P75, its in a '95 ls-se

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does it start then die ot not start at all (does it ever fire or does it just crank)

my stock computer would not hold the engine running for more than a couple seconds the first time i put my 404's in.

It's not starting at all. We can turn it over using a remote starter or even turning the key, but as far as firing goes.. . nothing. We did get a small back fire once. Who knows, maybe a family of squirrels built a nest in my exhaust. I'm so stumped on this.

Would the engine management make that big of a difference getting it started? I thought the ecu could compensate for a lot. It seems like it should at least sputter or something. Is my starter just not turning it over fast enough?

make sure everythings grounded well...

youre sure its getting fuel, spark and "air" right? are the plugs in the right order?

Plugs are in the right order. We checked them last night with everything else.

Everything seems to be grounded fine... considering it's a pretty easy swap. Everything hooked up pretty much the same way it came out. All the grounds are in the same spot.

We haven't done a compression test, yet.

Hey Nathan, you were right. We went and worked on it today and checked the compression. Bad news, but fixable it seems. It went like this: #4=60, 3=90, 2=15, and 1 was at 70. We didn't have much time to mess with it today, so we'll be going back to adjust things next week.

Ok so compression is jacked. Will adjusting the valve lash fix this? If so, should it be at stock specks or are there specific Crower 403 specks I should be using.

Sorry, I'm a first time builder and some of the tweeking I don't understand and it's driving me crazy. Again, any words of wisdom are appreciated.

thanks

the main thing that goes wrong with the compression is lack of oil and rings being gapped wrong. i had a DSM motor that lost oil pressure for no more than a minute or so and killed the #1 piston. it had no compression but ran on three cyclynders all day. i dont think that adjusting the valves will help the copression out enough to start. if you did put the cams in wrong and then fixed them they are more than likely to be bent. so you are looking at more of things inside the motor with this problem.

Are you saying the valves might be bent? If so, that blows. We've never actually started the engine as this is a fresh build, so I don't know that I could have bent the valve stems already. We've only used a remote starter and moved the crank by hand to turn it.

I started off with the timing marks dead on. We tried moving them by one tooth on the cam gears and the compression bumped up a little but was still way off and cylinder #2 was still junk. So we moved everything back the way it should be.

Anybody else have any thoughts? Could it still be a simple as adjusting the valve lash?

one way to find out -- adjust the lash then recheck compression

i think it'd be something more than just lash, like rings or somethign (as mentioned before)

doing it saturday. Thanks everyone for your help. We'll see how it goes.

i am not saying that they are bent for sure. but may be a possibility. look at your options here. rings can control compression, and valves, so its all up to what you think it is. valves and rings that is the? because that is the direct problem even though there is more things to the motor like the head gasket. but i am sure that the head would be torued down correctly and level.

Alright so my wife took the car today to go shopping and left me at our old place to work on my car for a couple hours.

I adjusted the valve lash and holycrap it actually started fixing the compression.

Now compression is as follows:

#4 100psi
#3 140psi
#2 140psi
#1 90psi

The crower 403 spec sheet says adjustment should be made hot (?), but it says the intake side should be at 0.006 and exhaust should be at 0.008. I adjusted them (cold) but I don't undersand why 1&4 are about the same and 2&3 are the same. Shouldn't they all be within 5% of each other? What psi should each cylinder be at anyway?

Build again is:
b20
84.5mm wiseco 11.5:1 pistons
Ported and polished b18b p75 head
Crower 403 cams.

I don't want to try and start it till I'm right on. Or am I fine now?

are you doing this with the throttle open? those numbers are still low.

No, very good point. I had the valve cover off and I was just using a remote starter to turn the crank. I'll go back and open up the throttle and try again.

I know that tdc is the same for 1&4 and 2&3 so it almost seemed like I had the timing off with the compression as it was. But I rechecked and all the marks lined up.