Ok, I just bought a 92 civic HB, fully gutted, and it has a b18b in it. It also has 404's, duel springs and ti retainers all the MSD(timeing control,rev limit,6AL box, blaster coil, Dis cap). And all the normal fuel upgrades,(255 pump,FPR,AEM rail,fuel pressure gauge,and RC310's). So the question is do I stick with the nonvtec or go ITR? abd what is some of the things i can do to it? right now it smokes at high RPM's. so could someone help out a newbie a little bit throw out some ideas. AND I DONT WANT TO BOOST IT.OH yeah I have also 4-1 headers coming and the Spoon catback is on it, and skunk2 cam gears, i think that is all
here are some pics

Welcome. Sounds like you been to the typical honda sites everybody says BOOST OR VTEC. Umm sounds like you got a really nice ride, how many miles are on the motor? Is it tuned properly with an EMS?

Don't go ITR under ANY circumstance. WAY over priced, over hyped. And you'll have a torqueless lag machine. Not cool. Stick with the LS Worst comes to worst, pick up a cheap B20 block, throw some sleeves at it, and slap in it with your LS head

or you could take te b18 and throw some b20 sleeves in it. but yea sounds like a good car and very nice car as well. i would stick to the nonvtech and stay away from it. lol. just kidding. just do what you want but we are here for ya.

Ok here are a couple more ideas

1) i could leave the LS block, throw in some CTR pistons, and get some hondata(or other EMS) but i dont know how much power that would make?

2) i have never heard of it, but get the B20 block, and do I get high comp pistons or leave factory?

What i really want for the car is a High reving motor, but i know that the LS and B20 are not made for that, but if i wanted to do that, what would i need to make it have power and liability to around 8.5 or 9k,(please dont flame, its gotta be possible)
thanks.

and one more question. Do i even need the 310's right now, cuz i think i might be buying some factory injectors real soon?

I wouldn't run stock injectors. I would be the last guy in the world to be able to tell you if you are running properly sized injectors though, mind you. May I ask why you want such a high revving engine!? I would stay away from vtec. Reason being is, for me personally it doesn't provide any kind of torque satisfaction. I've driven Type S preludes (I/H/E/P/high flow cat/short shifter/LSD) and Supercharged GSR integras (I/E/E/P/EMS/LSD/etc) and neither impressed me AT ALL, granted I was going pretty damn fast, it didn't FEEL fast b/c there was no torque to put me back in my seat. As far as a B20 block, they come in CR-Vs. Yes I know,its not any kind of performance vehicle,but its a great motor. More displacment=more potential for Hp/Tq. Problem being the sleeves are weaker -so- I'd reccomend doing a good sleeve job if your budget and etc allows it. Scope some junkyards for a CR-V motor Your probable gonna want to change out the pistons (higher compression B20s are hard to come by) and ARP connecting rods.


EMS-Look into Hondata, Neptune, Chrome, and Uberdata.

I bought my b20 for about 850. This was the whole motor mind you from an importer, mad JDM tyte yo! Anyways I feel that is is better than my LS-Vtec(cough* crap cough*) Torque is there, which is rare for a honda. If you really want to have a good b20 that you don't have to spend too much money on just replace the rod bolts and get a gsr gurdle. Mind you finding a non vtec computer to allow you to rev higher than 7250 is not easy. A hondata system would help, mind you 9000 is hard even for some Vtec motors but 8000 would be doable.

Ok, sorry there was a little missunderstanding. i know all about the b20,what i was meaning is i never heard of the LS head on the B20 block, and i was planning on getting the Function7 5 main cap girdle, and this isn't going to be a daily driver either, this is going to be my track/dragon car, i am going to take the project nice and slow, and do everything right. i am not new to Hondas what so ever, but i am new to the non vtec world. So back to my motor, do i need to buy the GSR oil pump and water pump? and i gusse i can give up on the high RPM's and just work with what i got. So if i was to get the B20 block do i need to keep the LS crank or rods? i have people tell me to keep it, why is that?

any clue what your car runs?

If you are going to track it a GSR oil and water pump would be a good investment. The crank and rods don't need to be used in a b20. That would create a bad environment. Smaller ls crank and rods in a big 2.0L block. About the head on a b20 comparing a 97 b20 head to a 97 b18b head is like looking in the mirror. I don't know about the earlier ls heads though.

Btw: you are so lucky being able to go to the dragon. I live in flat chested florida.

right now, Horrible! i think it dumping way to much fuel, and it smokes at high RPM's, and it has a stupid 6-puck racing clutch that makes everything shake! so thats why i am kinda just wanting to change eveything, but after hearing how every one is runing simmilar setups i might just fix some stuff.

you really have a great setup in the works, just needs some minor shit

are there going to be any problems putting in some ITR pistons in my LS?

I think you need to modify the wrist pins but im not sure where. But other than that I see many people do it on other forums.

modify how?

Ok
1) All the honda b16-b20 oil pumps flow the same amount of oil, and are made of the same material. The only real upgrade for the oil pump is getting an aftermarket gear for it. Or you could get an aftermarket oil pump such as the one kms offers, but i'm nut real sure you'll need it. Its more or less a ported housing.;
http://www.honda-performance.com/info-lv2.asp?id=284
2) The crank and rods in the b18 and b20 are the exact same, the extra displacement comes from increased bore. You can run the same rods, and crank, but NOT the same pistons.
3) The heads are all the same except for p8r. This is the only different non vtec dohc head.
4) You can't put "b20" sleeves in a b18 block. You can resleeve the b18 to make the same bore as the b20. B20's have different sleeve designs all together.

Now than. Nice looking car! Looks like it should make for a great time.
I think from the things you have listed it may be time to start thinking about a port and polished head.
Also might want to look into getting some higher compression pistons.
As far as tuning I've run crome, and had the ostriche. Made for a great combo. And get a wideband O2 setup so you can check on how rich your running.
Here's the link for crome; http://www.tunewithcrome.com/
http://www.moates.net/

I'm a little pressed for time at the moment but Ill check back in here in a day or two. Hope some of this helps.

thanks for all that info but i still need to know about the ITR pistons, i can get a set of Brand new ITR (USDM) pistons, and rings for $200, so do i have to machine the rod 1mm, or will it hit the head or valves? i am running 404's?

Forget about the ITR pistons, first off they dont fit (they are smaller) unless you want to sleeve your block down a bit to have a torqueless nonvtec wonder. Or, you want to use oversized rings and have them rattle around inside the cylinders. Otherwise go with what fits.

Listen to what SORROW said, he brought up a lot of main points. Trust me, unless you know a machining god you will get kicked in the crotch for even suggesting to sleeve a b20. Not that it can't be done, but in my experiance, well, the bandages are still there.

Besides, looking at what you've got thus far and checkin your list of goods; it sounds like you bought yourself a pretty nice beast to start out with anyway. Stick with what you have, fix the minor probs and get it tuned.

Good info, but not entirely true. in 96 the B series oil pumps changed...

good catch Sorry bout that I forgot about the crank angle sensor. But mainly I was trying to get accross that the flow rates are the same accross the models, and the internal diameters on the housings are the same.

FYI I did use an obd2 oil pump on my b18a race block.

You *should*be able to clear your valves with a type r styled piston. Clay, it to double check.

I realize you said you weren't new so all I'll say is if you get a chance to take her down for a month or two you should really do a decent tear down and check your bore out and take a good look at your bearings and replace all seals. Especially if someone else has done all this other work, theres no real way of knowing if they had to do any hone work on it, or if it's been beat down for awhile.

Here's a decent site with a range of pistons available: http://www.importperformanceparts.net/i ... acura.html

Here's some engine specs for you.
Stroke
B16a2 3.05"
b18b,b20b,b20z 3.50"
b18c, b18c5 3.43"

Bore
b16,b18b,b18c,b18c5 3.19"
b20b,b20z 3.31"

Some piston specs for you
B18a/b std piston:
Bore: 3.189
Stroke: 3.504
Rod Lgth: 5.394
C/H: 1.181
Head CC: 45.0
Comp Ratio: 10.5:1
Dish/Dome: 1.8

B18C5 1.8L DOHC VTEC '97-00 Integra Type R
bore: 3.189
stroke: 3.433
Rod length: 5.429
C/H: 1.181
Head CC: 42.7
Comp Ratio: 11.3:1
Dish/Dome: 5.7

Notice the difference in rod lengths... Yes that means the cranks are different, so if you use vtec rods, use a vtec crank. Heres a decent article this sites a little misguided in my opinion though:
http://www.team-integra.net/sections/ar ... ticleID=19

They do have some good articles to start learning from.

And Ill be damned if I forgot to say ARP studs all around. One of the..if not the best strengthening options available to us!