My tuner keeps telling me that the Crower stage 1 cams only add 2 hp at the wheels with tuning. Is this true? Anyone have these cams? What do you think of them? How much power did they make. I also am told that the stage 2 cams have a poor idle issue. Is this true?

That sounds like crap to me. Integraguy04 made 147whp with the 402's, bolt ons & a 9.8 CR. In that build thread I think he also mentioned it could've been tuned better. To me it sounds like your tuner doesn't know the 402's that well or he/she might be trying to sell you bigger cams so you have to buy the needed valvetrain.

He keeps telling me to go Ls Vtec and not to waste my time on the Ls head. I am already making 134whp with a good tune and bolt ons.

The final choice is yours to make. Do some research on what power goals you want. Then choose what you want na or fi and vtec or non vtec.

The avg. ls with bolt on makes 130whp.

^ thats correct redxiii, i did make that power and my ls made power till about 8K...it destroyed multiple gsr's (i had a ITR tranny too)... i ran a 15.0 in my teggy with full interior with that setup (no nitrous) it was tuned by one of the guys that works at kingmotorsports now but it depends on the turner...i went to one previously and he only had 138whp with it...took it to another and made 147whp

I want around 180-200whp NA. I know the best way to get there is Ls Vtec but the cost of the Vtec swap is out of my range right now after the B18b1 swap. But I am saving. I am always changing my mind though. Keeping the Ls head will keep me good for emission.

^ ok if thats so, imma tell you right now it will be very hard to hit 180-200whp w/out a ported head, 12.5:1 pistons, big cams, and a very good tune...ive only seen one all motor non vtec b series hit 200whp...if you wanna have that power and not spend a lot of money...do nitrous

I've seen plenty of 170whp na ls builds. A lot of them have p30 pistons, 403/404's, mild p&p & a good tune. I've only seen one 194whp na ls it used the 405's & was made into a 2L. As mentioned above nitrous is cheaper.

I sold my Zex set up a while back. Never had it on a car. I just dont trust No3, I have seem too many blow motors. And a Vtec head is around $400-$500, the same price as Zex kit. Vtec is a way more relieable way to make power. So what about stage 2 cams and rough idle? Is this common with a stage 2 cam or bigger??

you can use a stage 2 cam, but you have to upgrade ur valvetrain...i believe with the crower stage 1 cam, valvetrain is recommended, but not required

You said you wanted to keep the ls head for emissions, but yet you keep bringing up the vtec head. If you want vtec so bad & still be good with emissions do some research on your state laws & find out what if any engine swaps are legal. Also, the 403's can be made to idle like stock with a good tune.

Any obd1 coversion on an obd2 car is not street legal. I have a p28 ECU. If I go Ls Vtec then I will need an obd2 B16 ECU for emissions. If i keep the Ls head the I just need to plug in my old P75 ecu. Choices choices, I do enjoy smoking people with Vtec. The stage one cams dont require a valve train upgrade just the stage 2 and up. Any more imput is always great. What kind of hp numbers are people making with 403s with a stock bottom end and with the 402s as well??

dude im makin 170whp with full bolt ons sc300 tune with crower 402's i didnt like the 403's my buddy had because they werent as good in the mid range and my redline is only 7500,403's are good for topend power you loss alot of low and mid with them where as the 402s pull hard all the way through no lie....i have them.... ...but now if your gonna arp rod bolt your pistons and stuff and take redline out to like say 9500...then go with the 403 or 404 for that matter you need to decide wtf you are lookin for in your car....

I'm having a hard time believing you got 170whp with just bolt on & the 402's.

hm well thats kool with me im 28 years old bro i got nuthin to lie about...lol...im gonna be breakin into the high 13's i know it cuz i run down 350 z's all day and 2.0t gti's sorry you cant get over yourself

plus your tuner sounds like a complete retard

I am already making 134whp with a good tune and bolt ons. that is crap numbers your motor is whooped...do a compression test and how many miles are on the car a million i have a fresh engine at 50k lol 170 is totally possible if your not a retard...lol...the freakin motor is 142base which takes it to about 120 to the wheels ....so your tellin me you only got 14whp out of fullbolt on and a good tune???? ok buddy

i have 4to1itr header,hiflowcat,side piped, 3.5in custom CAI (sounds like a blow off shit you not),68mm TB,skunk2 IM portmatched,hondata IMG,crower402's,sc30o0 tune by uber..so you tell me how i am not 170 ???

Wow someone got mad..lol. Just chili, I'm not calling you a liar I'm just having trouble believing it that's all. The two reasons why are the stock head flows like crap (we all know this) & your choking your exhaust with a 2.25" tubing. A dyno would be nice.

i dont understand the word choking...lol...i tuned hondas for a while and i learned from my brother which went to college for high performance mechanics and is ASE cert and he i literally laughing right now he built the car with me and unless your turbo this so called choking my exhaust is how do you say over thought by the regular tuner...this isnt my only car i have 2 more a Vr6turbo and a old shitty 5.slow stang that i do donuts in lol